KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: presidential plans.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
We will move forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Vice President Kamala Harris begins to outline and clarify her positions on key issues ahead of the two-month sprint to Election Day.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
My values have not changed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are there enough details in the Harris agenda to win over undecided voters? I’ll talk to Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. Plus: Trump’s promises. Donald Trump appears to try and moderate his position on women’s health as the election nears, promising the government will pay for fertility treatments.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The government is going to pay for it, or we're going to get or mandate your insurance company to pay for it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk to Republican Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas. And: devastating discovery. The bodies of six hostages including Israeli American Hersh Goldberg-Polin are recovered in Gaza just days after his parents addressed the Democratic Convention.
RACHEL GOLDBERG-POLIN:
Hersh, if you can hear us, we love you. Stay strong. Survive.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How will this impact negotiations for a ceasefire? Joining me for insight and analysis are: David Rohde, NBC’s senior executive editor for national security; the Wall Street Journal senior political correspondent Molly Ball; Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution; and María Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. Former President Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris will face off in their first debate next week, as new polling shows just how competitive the race is with just over two months until Election Day. Nationally, Harris is leading Trump 48 to 47% in a Wall Street Journal poll of registered voters. A Quinnipiac poll shows Harris up two points among likely voters, 49 to 47%. In the battleground states, according to a set of Bloomberg/Morning Consult polls, Harris and Trump are tied in Arizona and North Carolina. Harris is narrowly ahead in Georgia, Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania, and Harris is ahead outside the margin of error in Wisconsin. This week, the vice president sat down for her first interview since becoming the nominee and was pressed on why she shifted positions on some issues from fracking to Medicare-for-All to immigration, since she first ran for president back in 2019.
[BEGIN TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
I think the most important and most significant aspect of my policy perspective and decisions is my values have not changed.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And this morning, there are new signs the issue of abortion is front and center in this race, as a growing share of voters, and particularly women, rank abortion second after the economy and give Harris an edge on the issue. For former President Trump, it's yet again posing political landmines. On Thursday, he was pressed by my colleague Dasha Burns about whether he would support an amendment that would overturn his home state of Florida's six-week abortion ban.
[BEGIN TAPE]
DASHA BURNS:
There's an abortion-related amendment on the ballot to overturn the six-week ban in Florida. How are you going to vote on that?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I think the six-week is too short. It has to be more time. And so that's – and I've told them that. I want more weeks.
DASHA BURNS:
So you'll vote in favor of the amendment?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I’m voting that – I am going to be voting that we need more than six weeks.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
But the very next day, after a backlash from anti-abortion advocates, Mr. Trump said he couldn't back the amendment.
[BEGIN TAPE]
BRYAN LLENAS:
Are you voting yes or no on Amendment 4 in Florida?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
So I think six weeks – you need more time than six weeks. I've disagreed with that right from the early primaries. When I heard about it, I disagreed with it. At the same time, the Democrats are radical because the nine months is just a ridiculous situation, where you can do an abortion in the ninth month and, you know, some of the states like Minnesota and other states have it where you can actually execute the baby after birth. And all of that stuff is unacceptable. So I'll be voting no for that reason.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, less than 1% of abortions happen at 21 weeks or later, and usually because of catastrophic health risks or lethal fetal abnormalities. And of course, infanticide is illegal in all 50 states. We will have more on all of that in a moment, but first, a devastating turn in the Israel-Gaza war. Israeli forces have recovered the bodies of six hostages in Gaza, including Israeli American Hersh Goldberg-Polin, whose parents met with world leaders pressing for his release, even speaking at the Democratic National Convention last month.
[BEGIN TAPE]
RACHEL GOLDBERG-POLIN:
Anyone who is a parent, or has had a parent, can try to imagine the anguish and misery that Jon and I and all the hostage families are enduring.
JONATHAN POLIN:
Bring them home.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The Israeli Defense Forces said that the bodies were recovered on Saturday from an underground tunnel in the southern Gaza City of Rafah, in an operation by the IDF, saying all six had been killed shortly before they were to be rescued by Israeli forces. In a statement, Vice President Kamala Harris said, “Hamas is an evil terrorist organization. With these murders, Hamas has even more American blood on its hands.” President Biden spoke on Saturday night.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
It's time this war ended. We should end this war. I think we’re on the verge of having an agreement. And it’s just time to end it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Republican Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas. Senator Cotton, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Thank you, Kristen, for having me on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here. Let's start with this devastating news: the discovery of six bodies, hostages, including Israeli American Hersh Goldberg-Polin. Everyone I think feels heartbroken this morning, the entire nation and, frankly, world, mourning these deaths. What is your reaction, Senator, and what do you think this will mean for hostage negotiations?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well, it's terribly sad news that Hamas murdered, executed, these six hostages in cold blood, apparently shot them in the head shortly before they might've been rescued by Israeli Defense Forces. My heart goes out to all the families, especially Hersh Goldberg-Polin's family, our fellow American. There are other fellow Americans still to be accounted for. But I think we should note that these hostages were discovered in the tunnels under Rafah. That's where Joe Biden and Kamala Harris put pressure on Israel not to enter for months, using arms embargo to try to keep them from entering. Kamala Harris even said that Israel shouldn't enter Rafah because she had “studied the maps.” What the Biden-Harris administration should've done from the beginning is not pressure Israel to restrain its response but let Israel win from the very outset. For 11 months, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have put more pressure on Israel than they've put on Hamas and Iran and Iran's other terror proxies.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, Senator, just to be clear, there of course is no arms embargo. It is true that the Biden administration did halt one shipment of arms out of concern –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
No –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– for civilian –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– that's – that’s not –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– casualties. There – there–
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– correct. No, Kristen, that's not correct.
KRISTEN WELKER:
it is correct there's no arms embargo --
SEN. TOM COTTON:
For weeks the Biden-Harris administration put an embargo not just on large 2,000-pound bombs, which of course are needed to penetrate these deep and buried tunnels, but on things like tank rounds and artillery shells –
KRISTEN WELKER:
It was –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– and mortar rounds –
KRISTEN WELKER:
No, it was just –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– it was just one shipment –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
No –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– of arms –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
No –
KRISTEN WELKER:
It was the –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
It was a large category –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– 2000-pound –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
No, Kristen --
KRISTEN WELKER:
– weapons –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– it was –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– that you're talking –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– a large category --
KRISTEN WELKER:
– about and –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– of weapons.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– 500 pounds –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
It was a large category of weapons.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. But they have now moved forward with that. It's not an arms embargo –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
They should –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– just to be very clear. That's a very specific –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
It was in place –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– term, and it's not –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
It was in place –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– an arms embargo.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
It was in place for many weeks –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– specifically to try to prevent Israel from entering Rafah where these hostages were discovered. If we had simply backed Israel to the hilt from October 7th, this war would probably be over. We probably would've found many more hostages alive, and there would've been fewer civilian casualties caused by Hamas' infliction of those civilian casualties on its own people. But at every turn –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have put more pressure on Israel than they have on Iran and Hamas.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And of course they have also argued that the U.S. stands firmly behind Israel. It was one arms shipment. Let's – let’s talk about Prime –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
No, Kristen –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Minister Netanyahu –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– it was more than –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
It was many more --
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Prime Minister –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
No, Kristen –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Netanyahu.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
You can do your fact-check thing all you want. I'm going to tell you the real facts. It was a large category of weapons –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– far beyond just 2000-pound bombs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. But the U.S. – but it wasn't an arms embargo. That's – that’s my only point. It wasn't specifically an arms embargo. Let's just move forward though in terms of what Prime Minister Netanyahu is facing right now because he's been facing pressure in the wake of this. He's been resistant to accepting this hostage deal. Axios' Barak Ravid reports that a senior Israeli official said, quote, "We warned Netanyahu and the cabinet ministers about this exact scenario but they wouldn't listen." Do you believe Prime Minister Netanyahu bears any responsibility for not getting a deal sooner?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
No, I believe Hamas bears responsibility for not turning these hostages back over to their families and surrendering. At – at every turn Benjamin Netanyahu has tried – tried to meet the Biden administration halfway. They continue to move the goal post. They continue to encourage and embolden Hamas. Consider what happened just a few weeks ago when the prime minister was here to speak at the Capitol. Kamala Harris didn't even sit behind him in a joint session over Congress, one of her few duties as vice president. Then she came out after a private meeting with him and stressed that we need a ceasefire now, which is the de facto Hamas position. What did you have two days later? You had Israeli children being blown up on playgrounds because every time Joe Biden and Kamala Harris put more pressure on Israel it simply emboldens Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just – just to be very clear though, there is pressure on Prime Minister Netanyahu. You have people protesting in the streets. He is, of course, the leader of Israel, and that's who I'm asking you about. Do you think, and would you urge him in this moment, Senator, to get a deal given these casualties?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
I would urge him to finish the job against Hamas, which is exactly what Kamala Harris and Joe Biden should've done from the very beginning. Again, if we had backed Israel to the hilt, if we hadn't continually put pressure on Israel to slow and to moderate its response, Hamas would've been broken and we would've gotten more of these hostages out alive. The only time Hamas has even come close to releasing hostages is when they are on the ropes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And of course the U.S. has given more aid, both military and monetary, to – to Israel than any other country. But let's –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well, to –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– move on.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– be exact they’ve given – we've given hundreds of billions of dollars in relief to Iran.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let – well – let – some of that money of course is frozen. But let – let’s – let's move on to some domestic issues, if we could. The issue of abortion front and center this week. Donald Trump has gone from calling himself throughout the arc of time, “very pro-choice” at one point. He's more recently bragged about overturning Roe v. Wade. He now says he's going to vote to keep Florida's six-week abortion ban in place, a law he once described as “terrible.” How can people trust Trump on this issue when he keeps shifting his position?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well, the president's been very clear: He does not support a nationwide abortion law. In fact, there's only one candidate in this race who supports a nationwide abortion law. It's Kamala Harris. And we know what it is because the Senate proposed it and we voted on it. It is radical and extreme. It would require taxpayer funding of abortion up to the moment of birth. That's what she stands for. She's the only one in this race calling for a nationwide abortion law, something that is wildly unpopular.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to be clear, the bill you're talking to requires that there be exceptions for health through the end of pregnancy, not that all abortions be legal in all cases, but –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
But president –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– let me –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– but President Trump has said he supports exceptions when a woman's health is at risk –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But – but–
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– when she's been raped or been the victim of incest.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I guess –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
The vast majority of Americans support those as well. But this law is radical. It would overturn 50 years of precedent and require taxpayer funding for abortion, even in these cases.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, taxpayer funding for abortion's currently of course illegal under the Hyde Amendment. And just to be clear, abortions later in pregnancy, 21 weeks and after, are extremely rare –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well, if they’re so – if they’re so –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– usually only take place –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well, if they’re so rare –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– in the case of a health emergency.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
If they're so rare, why won't Kamala Harris say, "Then, fine, we shouldn't allow them with those exceptions" –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Because of the –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– if they're so rare –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– concern for health emergencies.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– but if you have those exceptions –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
But, Kristen, if you have those exceptions it will account for those rare health emergencies. So why won't she say –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But that is what the law does.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
If only –
KRISTEN WELKER:
It says –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
If only –
KRISTEN WELKER:
"Up to the time of viability with exceptions."
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Kamala Harris –
KRISTEN WELKER:
States are allowed to have exceptions if there are health emergencies.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Kamala Harris –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me just try to –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– voted against the – the Born Alive Victims Protection Act.
KRISTEN WELKER:
She did not.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
If – if – yes, she did.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
I was there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– she voted – she voted against –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
I was there. She voted against it. Kristen, if these cases are so rare –
KRISTEN WELKER:
She voted against –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– in the late term –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– advancing the bill twice.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
If she voted – if she voted – if these cases are so rare in late-term pregnancy, then why won't she say, "You know what? We should prohibit these with exceptions for the mother's life?” Why won't she say that? Because she is a radical on abortion.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to be clear, she voted against advancing the bill twice when she was senator. She's called it extreme. Let me ask you about something else. I interviewed JD Vance last week. He told me Donald Trump would veto a federal abortion ban if it came to his desk. Now Trump is not committing to that. Do you think he would sign that veto if it came to his desk?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well – well, Kristen, I think it's a hypothetical, first-off. We both know there's not going to be 60 votes in the Senate any time soon for either party's preferred or centrist position on abortion, whether it's the radical position that Democrats have or the pro-life position that most Republicans have. So I think it's a hypothetical question. But President Trump has been consistent, is that there's not going to be a nationwide abortion law while he's president. He appointed three justices who reversed Roe V. Wade, which was wrongly decided, which even liberal scholars acknowledge was poorly reasoned, and returned this question to where it had rested for 170 years, which is the American people making choices through their elected representatives at their states. States are going to have different kinds of laws. Donald Trump has acknowledged that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I hear you're saying that former President Trump has been consistent, but as we showed he's actually pivoted quite a bit on this issue. But JD Vance was very clear. He said that Donald Trump would veto a nationwide ban. And I guess the question is, why can't Trump be clear with people about where he stands?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
He – he –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you clear? I know you're saying it's a hypothetical –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Kristen, he – he has –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– but are you –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– been clear that – that –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– clear about what he would do?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
He has been clear that there will not be a nationwide abortion law when he's president. He has been clear – he has been perfectly consistent on that. Now, Kamala Harris, to her credit, she's been consistent and not tried to hide her radical position on abortion. It's the only position she hasn't tried to hide over the last six weeks, like her position on decriminalizing illegal immigration or banning gas-powered cars or banning fracking. Abortion is the one issue on which she hasn't tried to hide her position from the American people –
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’m –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– in this election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'm going to talk to Congressman Ro Khanna about all of that coming up. But let's stick with Donald Trump. His big announcement on IVF this week. He said Thursday he wants the government to pay for or force insurance companies to cover IVF. Is that something you would support, Senator?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well, all Republicans, to my knowledge, support IFV in the Congress. And there's no state that prohibits or regulates IVF in a way that makes it unaccessible. It is expensive for many couples, I understand that. So it's something I'm open to that most Republicans would be open to. I think we'd have to evaluate the fiscal impact, whether the taxpayer can afford to pay for this, what impact it would have on premiums. But in principle, supporting couples who are trying to use IVF or other fertility treatments I – I don't think is something that's controversial at all.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, two months ago you voted against a Senate bill that would've protected and expand IVF access, and it would've mandated that some coverage was covered by health insurance plans. If that bill came back to the floor, would you now support it?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
You mean –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is that what you're saying?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
You mean Chuck Schumer's ridiculous messaging bill –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, no?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– that – that requires – that requires fertility treatment for men who think they're women –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But – but –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– that was slapped together in –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– the summer –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– but it’s a –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– in which he slapped together a bunch of other bills –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– it's a bill –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Chuck – Chuck –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– that also would've protected and expanded IFV access.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Chuck – Chuck Schumer –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So that's a no.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Chuck Schumer spent all summer long slapping together ridiculous bills that he thinks are going to help his liberal incumbent senators face off in their re-elections.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just very quickly, do you know where this money would come from to cover IVF? Because in 2022 some $8 billion were paid by families –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well no again that’s why
KRISTEN WELKER:
– on IVF.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– I say we'd have to – we’d have to evaluate any specific legislation –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you wouldn't support –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– that as I do on –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– taxpayer –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– any specific –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– dollars.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
I'd have to evaluate any specific legislation, as I would on any legislation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you're still undecided on where you stand on this government-funded IVF plan?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Well, I certainly support couples having access to IVF, and it's not even a controversial issue in any of the 50 states.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let me ask you about another one of the big headlines this week: Donald Trump's visit to Arlington National Cemetery. You've been talking about this. He attended a wreath-laying ceremony, obviously, for the 13 service members who were killed during the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. He was invited by those family members, important to say that. He also had campaign staffers with him. Photos, videos were posted on a campaign site. Taking campaign photos and videos at gravesites is forbidden under federal law. You, of course, served at Arlington Cemetery in the Old Guard, so I know that this is a sacred place for you. Bottom line though, I guess, Senator: Is it ever appropriate to make campaign content at military gravesites?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
He didn't take campaign photos there. These families, Gold Star families, whose children died because of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris' incompetence, invited him to the cemetery. And they asked him to take those photos because, as they told me yesterday when I spoke to Kelly Barnett and Darin Hoover, the parents of Taylor Hoover, who has Arkansas ties, they don't get to go to the beach on Labor Day. They don't get to have barbecues. This is their one chance to have a memory of their children to commemorate their service and to honor their sacrifice. They wanted President Trump there. They wanted to take those photos. You know who the families also invited? Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Where were they? Joe Biden was sitting at a beach. Kamala Harris was sitting at her mansion in Washington, D.C. She was four miles away, ten minutes. She could've gone to the cemetery and – and honored the sacrifice of those young men and women. But she hasn't. She never has spoken to them or taken a meeting with them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, they – they did meet with them during the dignified –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
It's because –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– transfer –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– of her –
KRISTEN WELKER:
They were with them at the dignified transfer.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– her and – her and Joe Biden's incompetence that those 13 Americans were killed in Afghanistan.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, not everyone, obviously, was pleased with this visit. And again, just the law says memorial services and ceremonies at Army national military cemeteries will not include partisan political activities.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
And it didn't, Kristen. He wasn’t – President Trump wasn't –
KRISTEN WELKER:
It was posted –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– wearing a red –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– on a campaign site though –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
He wasn't wearing –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– on his TikTok.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– a red MAGA hat.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I understand.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
He wasn’t – didn't have --
KRISTEN WELKER:
It was posted –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– a Trump hat, sign –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– on the Trump TikTok.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Just like Joe Biden – just like Joe Biden has posted content of himself in the cemetery or in other cemeteries –
KRISTEN WELKER:
He wasn't with campaign –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– or at a –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– staff though. Yeah.
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– dignified transfer. They're all American citizens. They have a right to go there and to honor the sacrifice of those 13 Americans who Joe Biden and Kamala Harris sent to their death.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about what we're hearing from another family, the family of Master Sergeant Andrew Marckesano. He was a Green Beret. His family was concerned that his grave was actually shown in a photo that was posted on social media. A statement from the Marckesanos' sister Michelle said, quote, "We hope that those visiting this sacred site understand that these were real people who sacrificed our freedom and that they are honored and respected accordingly." Did the Trump campaign fail to honor her wishes, their wishes?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
No, Kristen, they honored the wishes of the 13 families whose children died at Abbey Gate. Those families wanted the photos. They told me yesterday that they specifically asked President Trump for the photos. Obviously, headstones at Arlington are close to each other. And when you take –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But what about –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– a photo –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– that family –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– of your loved –
KRISTEN WELKER:
What about the –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
– one –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Marckesanos?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
When you take a photo of – of your loved one, then other headstones are going to be present as well. Frankly, I think it's pretty disappointing that the New York Times went and found a family whose headstone was featured in that – in that photograph of another Gold Star family and then went to them to try to embarrass the Gold Star families who wanted President Trump there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, have you had any conversations with former President Trump about joining his administration, should he win?
SEN. TOM COTTON:
All we're talking about is making sure that he does win and that we elect Republican majorities in the Congress so we can begin to reverse some of the damage that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have caused.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Tom Cotton, thank you so much for being here this morning on this –
SEN. TOM COTTON:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Labor Day. Hope you get some time with family. Really appreciate it. When we come back, is Vice President Harris doing enough to clearly explain her agenda and how her views have evolved? Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. How much will Vice President Harris draw a distinction between President Biden's record and what she will do, if elected? In her first joint interview as the Democratic nominee, Harris defended some of her policy shifts since she ran for the White House back in 2019. Joining me now to discuss all of this is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. Congressman Khanna, welcome back to Meet the Press.
REP. RO KHANNA:
Kristen, thank you for having me on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here. I have to start with this just devastating and tragic news: The revelation that six hostages have been killed by Hamas, including Israeli-American Hersh Goldberg-Polin. What is your reaction and what do you think this will mean for hostage negotiations?
REP. RO KHANNA:
Well, my heart breaks for the family of Hersh Goldberg-Polin. I met, like many, his parents, Jon and Rachel. He was a Californian. They spoke about his love for life. He was planning to go to India. He was planning to travel the world. And it's just a devastating loss, his murder by Hamas. But what we need now is an end to the war. And we need to continue to pressure Hamas to unconditionally release the hostages. But the hostage families themselves are saying that Netanyahu needs to actually be in the negotiation. Gallant, his own defense minister, has criticized Netanyahu and the cabinet for saying that the Philadelphi Corridor that Netanyahu is not willing to withdraw troops there, as Egypt and the United States want. So, I hope there's going to be pressure on Hamas and Netanyahu to end this war, release the hostages.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you, big picture, about something. This is according to The Washington Post, which says that “Vice President Harris would conduct a full review if elected of the U.S. Israel policy, and could be open to imposing conditions on some aid to Israel.” I know that that's something that you have supported. Have you been pushing her directly to support conditioned aid to Israel?
REP. RO KHANNA:
I've been pushing her to support the enforcement of U.S. law. That is what the enforcement of the Leahy Law and our security laws require, that we don't have unconditional aid. And, Kristen, this isn't unprecedented. In 1982, after the Sabra and Shatila massacres in Lebanon P,resident Reagan called up Menachem Begin in Israel and said, "We will not give aid in a way that's going to cause humanitarian crises." So, we need to have pressure on both sides to end the war, and I'm glad the Vice President's open to a new direction.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Has she expressed openness, though, to conditioning aid to you directly, in some of your conversations?
REP. RO KHANNA:
No. I will leave that for the Vice President to articulate. But what she has – her team has expressed openness is to a new direction. And look, anyone looking at this policy, you have hostages who still aren't released, you have a war that has lasted almost 11 months, you have over 40,000 people in Gaza dying. We need a new direction of policy to bring the war to an end.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about another foreign policy issue. You just heard Senator Cotton there sharply critical of the Biden administration, of President Biden and Vice President Harris, for the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan. Vice President Harris has said that she was the last one in the room for that decision about that withdrawal. Do you think she bears some responsibility for the way that that withdrawal was carried out?
REP. RO KHANNA:
Well, first of all, it was Donald Trump who wanted us to get out of Afghanistan, was never able to do it. I give President Biden and Vice President Harris for finally ending the war for 20 – after 20 years. And my heart goes out to the Gold Star families of the 13 Marines we lost. I have tremendous admiration for the service of those who were lost. But I think the war had to end, and there needs to be a review of why those victims were there, our Marines. And, of course, the administration needs to explain that. But the big issue here was that President Biden had ended a war that Donald Trump said he wanted to end.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There were some recommendations that troops should still be stationed there. Do you believe she bears some of the responsibility for some of those key decisions that were made, that did lead to that withdrawal, which we all witnessed, which by all accounts – including Biden administration acknowledging – was botched?
REP. RO KHANNA:
I think she is proud of the Biden-Harris record. She deserves credit for ending the war, and to the extent that there were mistakes made, of course, she is part of that administration. But you know the difference, Kristen? No one is perfect in government. And President Biden's team himself has acknowledged certain mistakes. But leaders take responsibility, and they're open, and they're honest. And yes, there were certain mistakes made. But the war was ended, and that is the big decision that she deserves and President Biden deserves credit for.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about the interview that Vice President Harris had this week. She talked about some of those policy reversals that have now been in the spotlight. She previously supported Medicare for all; she now doesn't. She favored a ban on fracking; she now doesn't. She once argued against criminalizing illegal border crossing. She now says, quote, "There should have to be consequences." She said when she defended these policy positions that her values have not changed, even though her policies have. Why should people believe what she says now?
REP. RO KHANNA:
Well, first of all, I think she came off with confidence, calmness, and non-defensiveness. And I hope she'll do more of these interviews. I actually agree with your predecessor, Chuck Todd, that she should go on these weekly shows. She's very competent, and running for President, have her views out there and take the hard questions. But let's go issue by issue. On fracking, President Biden ran in 2020 on a position saying that there were going to be no new fracking leases on federal land. Our federal land is sacred, and that we were going to protect that. He did not say that we were going to ban fracking in private lands. In states like Pennsylvania most of the fracking is on private lands. And Vice President Harris ran on that position. In the Vice Presidential debate, she said that Joe Biden and her were not going to end fracking on private land. So my assumption is this is the same position. She's not going to have new leases on federal land, but she's going to be fine with fracking as a transition on private land. That was what they ran on in 2020.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let's delve into one of the policy positions – another one – more specifically. Her initial support and now opposition to a single-payer health care system. You support that.
REP. RO KHANNA:
I do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's play something that Senator Bernie Sanders told Politico just last month.
[START TAPE]
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
We need Medicare for all. It's not her view, nor is it President Biden's point of view. And you know what? I think I'm right and they're wrong. But what can you do?
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you disappointed that Vice President Harris is not running on an agenda that includes Medicare for all?
REP. RO KHANNA:
Well, I strongly support Medicare for all. I support getting people on Medicare: dental, vision, hearing. Those are basics. And I believe that people should not have to go bankrupt because of medical debt. And I hope that we can get to Medicare for all. But if Vice President Harris is going to take incremental approaches to improve health care for families, to expand Medicaid, to expand the Affordable Care Act, that's better than going backwards and having Donald Trump, who wants to repeal the Affordable Care Act.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Zooming out, what do you say to progressives who feel abandoned by Vice President Harris on some of these key issues?
REP. RO KHANNA:
I say look at the progress we have made. You have Bernie Sanders having a progressive agenda that influenced President Biden, that led to the American Rescue Plan, that had the childcare tax credit, that had massive investments in manufacturing and schools. And Vice President Harris has taken some bold, progressive positions. She's calling for building more housing. She's calling for expanding the Child Tax Credit. She's calling for capping rents that are outrageous. So, progress isn't made in one fell swoop, but we're moving in the right direction.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think she would consider herself to be a proud progressive? How would she label herself?
REP. RO KHANNA:
Well, I'd let her do that. But I think of her as a progressive who's pragmatic, to meet the needs. But this idea that she hasn't been consistent, I mean, what about Donald Trump's flip-flops? What about his flip-flops on abortion--
KRISTEN WELKER:
I just talked to Senator Cotton about that.
REP. RO KHANNA:
And so, I think the Vice President is consistent on the position on fracking. It's exactly how Joe Biden ran. I think on Medicare for all, you know, I ran against her as a co-chair of Bernie Sanders's campaign. She was not for Medicare for all in that 2020 primary. That was part of the difference. So is she as progressive as me, or Bernie Sanders, or others? No. But she is moving in a progressive direction for the party and a focus on working and middle class Americans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Congressman Ro Khanna, thank you so much for being here--
REP. RO KHANNA:
Thank you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--on this holiday weekend. We really appreciate your time.
REP. RO KHANNA:
Appreciate it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, the fight over abortion rights was back in the spotlight this week. Our panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News National Security Editor David Rohde, author of the new book, “Where Tyranny Begins: The Justice Department, the FBI, and the War on Democracy;” Molly Ball, senior political correspondent for the Wall Street Journal; María Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino; and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Thanks to all of you for being here on this Labor Day weekend. David, I have to start with you. This devastating news that we all woke up to, the news of these six hostages killed. You, of course, were held by the Taliban in Afghanistan for seven months. I know that you know this family. I know that you are grieving this morning. The implications of this, the implications of this for where things go in Gaza from here.
DAVID ROHDE:
I met the Polins in this very studio. You've interviewed them. Lester Holt sat down with all the families of the Americans that have been taken hostage. Jon and Rachel, Hersh's parents, are just extraordinary. And the odd thing, in my case was many years ago, I think Hersh suffered much more. His courage – he had his hand blown off by a grenade. And he was still dragged into Gaza. His hand appeared to have been amputated while he was in captivity. That was in a video that was released by Hamas in April. And his struggle to end this way is just heartbreaking. And then Jon and Rachel are just incredible in many ways. And I'm biased on this. I'm a proud NBC national security editor. And I want to be non-partisan, but hostage taking is a very cruel crime. It's particularly cruel and I think cowardly for the families. I know that Jon and Rachel, my own family, you sit there thinking, "How can I save my loved one? Can I get, you know, President Biden or Prime Minister Netanyahu to do something?" And it's just cruel to the families. So this is just heartbreaking. And I'm so sorry for Hersh and his family and for all the hostages.
KRISTEN WELKER:
María Teresa, we heard from them at the Democratic National Convention when they spoke out. And they have been so outspoken. "Bring our son home." They have shared their grief, their horror with the world so bravely. And yet here we are.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
I mean, my heart goes out to their families. I do think that what Kamala Harris has been able to do is weave this idea that we need national security for Israel and protections, while recognizing that there has to be justification and protecting the innocent in Gaza. I do think, though, moving forward, if this blows up into a regional issue, this could be the October surprise. And going into the election, if that is the case, Americans are going to ask, "Who is going to be the commander in chief? Who is the one that should be at that table?" And I think that is something that we should be watching. But again, the grievance that you expressed, I just cannot imagine.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Lanhee.
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, it's an awful day without question. I think the challenge for the Harris team is that they're trying to have it both ways. And you saw this a little bit in her convention speech. But on the one hand she wants to stand with Israel, on the other hand she's talking about the need to be respectful or to be understanding of the position of the Palestinians, and understanding that this is a Hamas-driven activity. There’s a difference there, to be sure. But I think that there's a little bit of confusion here, because this is an issue that divides the Democratic Party’s base as well. And I think that's what makes the politics a little bit complex here for her. Because she's got to navigate this in order to keep the support of her base but also appear palatable to swing voters.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes. Molly, I mean, we started to get at that with Congressman Khanna, just how complicated the politics of this are. The fact you do have a fair number of voters in states like Michigan and states throughout the so-called "blue wall," to name a few, who are deeply driven by this issue.
MOLLY BALL:
And Kamala Harris was asked about this in her CNN interview this week. And she just kept saying, "We need a deal. We need a deal." We haven't gotten a deal and months have gone by. And President Biden has persistently said, "It's close. It's close. It's close." But the U.S. can't be the only one who wants a deal here. If Israel doesn't want a deal, if Hamas doesn't want a deal, and at various times both sides have rejected these different arrangements that the U.S. had tried to broker. And I think to María Teresa's point, with every passing day that that deal is not achieved, it is a reminder not only of the issue of arms to Israel, which Kamala Harris did not really answer in that interview, and which does continue to divide the Democratic base. There is a significant portion, as we all saw in Chicago, that is animated by that issue and does not like her position on it. And it's a reminder that this conflict persists. And, you know, in a lot of polls, voters do say that they trust Trump more on foreign policy, in part, because there are these ongoing conflicts overseas in which the U.S. has interests at stake and remains embroiled. And the administration has not, for whatever reason, been able to bring them to a close.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes. Lahnee, you know, the race could also turn, not just on the issue of foreign policy and everything that is happening in the Middle East right now but on domestic policy. And obviously abortion is front and center in that. We are watching former President Donald Trump wrestle with this in real time. For example, on Thursday he suggested he was going to basically vote against the six-week ban. Then by Friday, he had shifted gears, because he was under so much pressure. How do you think this will play out, given the polling?
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, this is another example of the pressure between swing voters and base voters. And this is in some ways the equivalent, in terms of how this issue plays out. I think that Republican voters will give Donald Trump a lot of grace on this issue. So, I don't tend to believe that there will be a large migration of base voters away from him because his position has been a little bit tortured on this issue. I do think it's the case, though, that the energy of the Republican base is something that could be affected if this continues to drag out. So, that's why it was important for his campaign to do as they did, which is to try to clarify this as quickly as possible. Because this is one of those things that, if you let it linger, the energy is really the problem. It's not so much that they're going to go vote for Kamala Harris. It's that they may not be as enthused to vote for Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
María Teresa, it's so fascinating because Donald Trump is both someone who's taken responsibility for overturning Roe v. Wade, and at the same time, the minute it was overturned, understood that this would be a political liability for him. And it has been for Republicans. When he comes out and says, "Hey, free IVF from everyone," is that something that makes Democrats nervous that, "Maybe we should have proposed that first"?
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
No, I think – first of all, I think this has real policy implications where there are women sadly that are dying under these bans. And so, we have to remember that whatever policy decisions we end up with, that there are actual harm being caused every single day the more they delay addressing this issue. And I do think that the Democrats realize that he is – he is not growing his base. He needs to grow his base. And I actually think that, to your point, he's making a lot of evangelicals nervous with his flip-flopping. And that is one of the reasons why he recognizes, "Wait a second. I need to pull myself back, because where are my voters coming from?" His strategy to win the election is to make sure that his MAGA Republicans and evangelicals come out. He is losing independent moderate voters from all the polling that we're seeing. So, he has to figure out how do you thread the needle, while ensuring that the other side does not come out?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Molly, how do you see this and the fact that we have new polling that shows that women voters increasingly see this as their top issue, tied with or second to the economy? We've never seen that before quite frankly.
MOLLY BALL:
And this is an issue in which Trump has always been sort of caught in a vise. And, you know, his position from the beginning was that he was proud of the decision overturning Roe v. Wade because it returned it to the states, and then the states could do whatever they want. But we've seen in practice how it's more complicated than that. How, you know, when Arizona tried to dramatically restrict abortion, Trump actually intervened to pressure the legislature to overturn that ban. In Florida, where it's on the ballot and where he is a voter, he's got to say how he would actually vote on a state's decision. And he, as we've talked about, went back and forth, because he has to simultaneously reassure his base that he will continue to fight for them, but also speak to swing voters. The other part of his base that he risks with this IVF gambit is fiscal conservatives. You heard Senator Cotton not wanting to commit--
KRISTEN WELKER:
That was fascinating--
MOLLY BALL:
--to what would essentially be an expansion of Obamacare and a massive expense for the federal government, if they were to have the government cover IVF. I don't think he would get a lot of Republican senators going along with something like that. And so for not only pro-life conservatives but fiscal conservatives, who want limited government and less spending, this is a little bit disturbing to see where Trump is going on these issues.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys. Stand by, pause. We're going to start the next panel with you, David. Stay with us. When we come back, price controls and the high cost of living have been top of mind for American voters for decades. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KRISTEN WELKER:
This Labor Day weekend, both campaigns are leaning into the economy, the top issue for voters. Vice President Harris' proposal to ban price gouging in the grocery industry has gotten attention and some criticism, with former President Trump saying she has endorsed, quote, "Soviet style price controls." And Harris's allies arguing that her plan is instead a targeted expansion of existing state powers. Back in 1951, here's how the president of the United Automobile Workers talked about the debate over price controls here on Meet the Press.
[BEGIN TAPE]
WALTER REUTHER:
We believe that when we fight for effective price control, to really have a law that begins to roll back the cost of living and then control it, we think we're reflecting the desires and the needs of the great majority of American people. We think when we fight for a tax law that begins to place the burden of defending freedom upon all people based upon their ability to pay, we think we're fighting the battle of the average American.
LAWRENCE SPIVAK:
And you think that in a democracy, at a time of war, when some of our sons are in Korea, that when you walk out the way you did, that you're speaking for the plain people of America whose sons are in Korea and who are being drafted?
WALTER REUTHER:
What about the GI who leaves his children back here with a wife? Don't skyrocketing prices affect her, doesn't the lack of rent control affect their welfare? But we're fighting for these things because it helps all Americans.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
A debate then, a debate now. When we come back, the special counsel revised his indictment against Donald Trump this week after the Supreme Court's immunity decision. What role will Trump's legal battles play ahead of November? More with the panel next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is still here. And David, I want to start with you and your new book, “Where Tyranny Begins.” But put it against this backdrop. This week, special counsel Jack Smith filed a new indictment against former President Trump, basically stripping out all the references to official acts in his initial indictment in the wake of the Supreme Court's ruling on immunity. And it relates to your new book, it – particularly where you reflect on former President Trump's impact on the legal system. You write, quote, "In four years as president and three years as an ex-president, Trump has successfully used conspiracy theories, co-option, and threats to bend DOJ and FBI officials to his will. Those who dare to defy him had their reputations damaged and their careers derailed. That is not the rule of law. That is not democracy." What else did you find in this book – in researching this book?
DAVID ROHDE:
That these tactics worked. I was shocked at how afraid people were to speak to me on the record and, you know, concerned about what could happen in a Trump administration. And since I finished the book, the Supreme Court came out with this immunity decision, which as you said makes it legal – any official act by a president with the attorney general is allowed. Anything. And that was – this is unprecedented in American history. It's never existed before. A concrete example, again, recent events: On Tuesday, Donald Trump is coming out with a new book, a picture book. And in that picture book, he says that if Mark Zuckerberg, the head of Facebook, does anything to interfere in the 2024 election, Zuckerberg will spend the rest of his life in jail. Under this immunity ruling, Trump can call up his attorney general, tell him to prosecute Zuckerberg, and if that attorney general refuses to carry that order out, he can fire him. And again, under the immunity ruling, that is absolute immunity, privileged communication between the president and the attorney general. This did not happen. Richard Nixon had his attorney general look for, you know, prosecute his political enemies, look for leaks against the president. This is a whole new era that we're in now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, Lanhee, what is your take both on what David has written in his book and this moment that we are in, in which former President Trump is still facing these indictments, albeit doesn't seem like they're going to go to trial before Election Day?
LANHEE CHEN:
I mean, I – I think the political impact of the superseding indictment is minimal unless there's some additional resolution of this case, which appears unlikely. I think people are pretty dug in in their points of view. I do think this Supreme Court decision is going to have a very long tail, well beyond a second Trump term, whoever is president next. I mean, the – the decision talks about the value of an energetic executive. This decision basically gives the executive two Red Bulls and – and a coffee, right? I mean, this is, like, beyond energetic. And so the concern one has is in the future, what does this mean for executive power going forward? Already we have an executive that's much more active now than at any point in American – in recent American history. And it puts a premium on what executives promise in a campaign. Because they then are much more well-positioned to engage in executive action to get things done. That's why it matters what they say on the campaign trail now, because now they actually have the legal backing to do things with it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
María, all of this is taking place against the backdrop of we are nine days out from the first debate between former President Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris. What are you watching for as we get closer to that all-important moment?
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
So I think one of the things that has made Harris really a household name is that she is playing in a completely different sandbox than Donald Trump. She does not engage with him, and she does it with joy, and she deflects him. We saw that in an interview as well. And I think what the American people are going to look for is that when she engages him, is it going to be through this lens of, “I see who you are, buddy. You are a convicted felon and I'm the prosecutor”? And we know that among the American people, they may not like Donald Trump, but what they really don't like is that they keep finding these – these, you know, egregious breaking of the law. And they are wanting someone to put him in his place. And how is she going to do that? And how is she going to define it, I think, is going to be really important.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. I mean, Molly, we have seen her come out very forcefully right from the beginning and really lean into her background as a prosecutor and try to, as María Teresa is saying, make that distinction with former President Trump. What does she need to do in the debate? And – and obviously they're both preparing in very different ways, these two different candidates.
MOLLY BALL:
Well, right. And I think they are both going to seek to put the other on the defensive. And that is going to be the crucial thing that I think we're all watching for, is we see her be less comfortable when it comes to defending her own positions and explaining her own values, as she puts it. So is she able to keep Trump on the defensive? Is she able to keep the focus on him and the case that she wants to make against him and not get bogged down in – in explaining where – where she stands? Because you know, I think part of what happened in the June 27th debate, of course, all of the focus was on President Biden and his dramatic sort of collapse. But a lot of voters who watched that debate weren't necessarily in love with what Trump was doing either. And the – so I think the question is, can she continue to do this tight-rope walk where she's able to position herself as both, you know, an – an owner and a defender of the administration that she's been a part of, but also a candidate who's seeking to represent change and to turn the page? That is a tricky balancing act, and I think it's going to be interesting to see how – whether and how she can pull that off.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. The first debate proving how significant debates can be. Great conversation to all of you, thank you for being here. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. Have a great Labor Day weekend. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
